Farming in duels in the same way repeatedly

For those who are not aware I will explain briefly:
Lately there has been this new setting and way to play duels that leads to farming: 15k money - 1 minute - eurasia (money may change to 10k, usually not, but its still the same thing of course), the other settings are more or less the classic / legal ones: no rares, all strats allowed, extra cities, 50/100 turns, take capital and hold for 2 turns , no latejoin. The duel will only start if one picks in europe and the other in eurasia though, it won't be accept to facing in closer space, because it will go against the strategy wich we'll now see. The strategy and the gameplay is always the same: you always and exclusively play with the covert operation strategy (marines economic and defensive, cheap but scarce tanks, nerfed transport and the rest more or less normal) and also the gameplay is always the same, that is to expand a minimum on the rich areas and then start to spawn the marines everywhere, probably by setting autospawn, due to the single minute of time, but this matters little, then spend about thirty / twenty turns to create a stack of marines to be sent to the opposing capital, essentially that's all, the rest is to spawn the marines and leave them in defense where they are. (you can only do this with covert operation, because there are cheap stealth units, and it doesnt work, for istance with guerrilla warfare, because those marines would just cap, but not defend properly the city)
Consequently, if you use repeatedly this setting to try farm always in the same way it can work, because two main scenarios are essentially opened:
1) your opponent is a noob, or he is not aware of this strategy, and therefore 40 rounds pass - you cap - duel over - farm done. Why this? Because no matter how skilled you may be, no one will never be able to defend a stack of 2000 troops in 60 seconds that it took you half an hour to create, for this reason the single minute is a fundamental condition of the game. In this case, if your opponents tries to offer you a different type of game, you can just say no for ever and keep farming the way you want.
2) your opponent is at least good at playing and is aware of this strategy, and therefore sp farm game until the hundredth round
how fun! Because with an autospawn of marines covert operation it is impossible to take the capital, and even keep it, since the marines are cheap and are also spawned around the place.

So is this suppose to be allowed or not? And morover, if you do this with only lowrank players or lowelo players, and this get you to top ranking in seasonal or in normal elo, is this right? I'll be honest, to me this (in itself) is not a bad thing in the sense that if no one high-ranking or elo join your duels, then it's perfectly legitimate to duel with what you have. However, if you find yourself among the top of the rankings and still no one (or almost) at a minimum level has shown up for your duels, maybe it means something. Probably in fact, for people of a certain level, rank, experience, skill it was enough to look at your duel settings to decide with little doubt not to enter.

In summary, with an objective slant, this is not doing anything illegal and this is important to understand, espettialy for the people who feel concerned about this :
THIS IS NOT DICUSSING WHETER WHAT YOU DO IS LEGAL OR NOT : there is no atwar rule saying you can't duel only in eurasia with those settings or that you only have to duel in europe. Also when someone opens a duel game, you don't have to join it, you have the right to either accept their map and their settings or not, nobody forces you to join someone's else duel settings/map, and of course you cannot force others to play your duel and your settings. You may think that if your duel is interesting and fun people are going to join it, otherwise not, but if you use this strategy and this settings to farm elo, playing people that registered in atwar yesterdays or that have almost never done anything in competitive, probably you know that they have no idea what the map is about, and you can just exploit this to your good and, precisely, to farm.

The question that arises is whether it is right and correct for a player to choose his single map, his time, his strategy, his rules, his gameplay, always in exactly the same way .... probably the answer is yes , however, if you also include the fact that this player may be first, or in any case in the first places of the seasonal elo rankings, the answer is probably subject to change. (for istance, what prevents anybody to make only duels with the winning setting "take capital" and only play guerrilla warfare and send 2k marines to the other cap? thats just an example of course, it has counters and its totally losable). I personally remember that, about a year ago I reached the top ranking dueling mainly (not exclusively) with 1k starting funds, in the period that this new setting was created and introduced in the game, and this aroused similar criticism from some people. However, I have always varied maps based on the preference of the duelists I met, and sometimes even changed starting funds (you can ask, but everyone knows, i play mainly 10k and 1k but i also like very much 3k and a bit 5k also, i play cws in conventional settings aswell, and i play all maps in world and even scenarios, i also like very much casual games, well i play pretty much anything), albeit preferring the ones I like best, because it is also right to choose a game mode you prefer, but perhaps use only that one, in the way in which everyone's testimony much people are doing nowadays, is not entirely acceptable, at least morally speaking, morover if that leads one player to win thropies, while anybody else is behaving differently (and correctly?).
So : this exactly way to play and do and farm it is allowed right now, question is : should it be so?

P.S. This of course is not pillory or anything, neither it intend to be, i'm just referring to action that were made or that can be made and wheter thats is morally right or if it should be illegal or not.


I remind you that what I have written are mainly my opinions. Let's keep the discussion respectful and polite, and maybe we'll all get something.
Peace

It's not that we want players to do this kind of farming, we're just kind of waiting for a solution. The solution mods came to a while ago was restricting dueling to rank 6+ players through code. I'm pretty sure Dave said he was ok with it, but I'm not going to speak for him. So thats kind of where we're at.

If that gets implemented btw, the plan is to remove the rule regarding dueling on alts.

I don't like the idea of making extra rules to cover something the game mechanics currently allow.

I remember few months ago, i hosted duel game, 10k eu+, nobody joined for 1h.. So, due to lack of better players, only low ranks joins duels.. As Sid said, solution is to restrict low rank players to duel, that will fix problem for sure.. Players will be forced to play standard duel settings..

While it is annoying, it is allowed. To me, the most obvious solution to fix farming in general would be to change the elo formula. Make it more stringent so that you get no elo for playing players with 300 elo less. This would seriously weaken farming, particularly for seasonal if you feel this is a problem.
For example, if I am 1200 and I beat a 1000, and I only get 0.5 elo, it will be almost impossible for me to farm my way to 1300+ just by playing noobs. I will be forced to play more serious players. This seems to be the fairest solution to me.

Lev, i like you and you are great guy, but, do you know what you have in common with yacer?? You both dueled i wont say bad players, but not so good players..
This is how it went when you played against 2 better players : https://prnt.sc/yrEusGxSBSPl
This is how it went when you start farming 1000 elo players : https://prnt.sc/zeMJ27sAGxnN

If you check top players in duel list, you will see that only tungston have dueled 1300-1400 elo players..

None of you in top 3 deserve place there cause your opponents were not competitive players.. So you dont have right to speek about yacer while you are not any better.. Ye, maybe he dueled same settings blablabla, but you did almost same.. This is not against you, i like you as player and friend, but this how bad current system is..

The second better player u are referring to is v for vendetta? The second pic you shared was a series of duels in a map where i deliberately choose a weaker country to explore expantions and stuff, not that it matters, anyway i dueled again alpen in the latest weeks, in this season , as i already said i play noobs too, because, the same way you rightly wrote, sometimes no good players join duels so. In the second pick there are not only noobs of course, there is panda, geronimo, kogi and gust, even though you tried to look for a pic where the most noobs could be listed to make it clear (which i understand), but i can see your point, you are right, the problem is about the current sistem that can allow things (even though, i mean, honestly, you can't quite compare the people i dueled and the way i dueled to others people opponent and behaviour in the top duel list.... i don't do the same let's be honest, i played good players, now and in past times, and i also change playstyle and anything else, but anyway i see the point, for obvious reasons i dueled much low elo players, that's correct)

Napisano od El Serbio, 19.11.2022 at 03:30

Lev, i like you and you are great guy, but, do you know what you have in common with yacer?? You both dueled i wont say bad players, but not so good players..
This is how it went when you played against 2 better players : https://prnt.sc/yrEusGxSBSPl
This is how it went when you start farming 1000 elo players : https://prnt.sc/zeMJ27sAGxnN

If you check top players in duel list, you will see that only tungston have dueled 1300-1400 elo players..

None of you in top 3 deserve place there cause your opponents were not competitive players.. So you dont have right to speek about yacer while you are not any better.. Ye, maybe he dueled same settings blablabla, but you did almost same.. This is not against you, i like you as player and friend, but this how bad current system is..

Dude Lev isn't making meme WWI duels (like some guys ejem ejem always try to force us to play those cringe Prussia vs Rusia WWi duels) and there are maps who are decent for duels outside of EU+ or regular maps, like the original Middle Earth map and Ancient.

Another problem is avoiding duels.. For example, i asked Javadov for duel, he didnt even respond and Yes he was online and active.. His playstyle is exact same as Yacer, playing only 25k 1 min eurasia vs noobs who dont even know how to wall properly.. And that guy will get trophy.. Doesent make any sense..

Everyone has their own setting that they excel at. This is no different. If we take a look at the top elo leaderboards in history we will see the same exact thing.
Croat 1800+ farmed only Eu west 10k
PleaseMe 1773 Farmed 3k 5k and 10k Eu eurasia mideast
Chess 1763 Farmed 10k and 5k eurasia
4nic 1751 Farmed ds ukraine
Tengri 1750 Farmed ds ukraine
Eagle 1740 Farmed 10k west
Clovis 1740 Farmed 3k and 5k Eu eurasia LA middle east and NA

Every one of these players was exceptionally good at a specific preset and continued farming others with what they're good at. New players today aren't an exception just because you don't like it.

Seasonal trophies have become somewhat a joke and people recognize that. But no one cares anymore. Seasonal trophy farming was never the best representation of who was the best person it just meant who spent more time farming in the game.

The real competition was tournament trophies. Master of West/East/NA/Asia stuff like that. Those were always something to brag about because everyone had equal opportunity with no weird niche picks.

Honestly if you don't like this particular person farming. Join their game and beat them. And if you can't then suck it up. If they banned you then who cares and move on.

Napisano od PleaseMe, 21.11.2022 at 17:41

Everyone has their own setting that they excel at. This is no different. If we take a look at the top elo leaderboards in history we will see the same exact thing.
Croat 1800+ farmed only Eu west 10k
PleaseMe 1773 Farmed 3k 5k and 10k Eu eurasia mideast
Chess 1763 Farmed 10k and 5k eurasia
4nic 1751 Farmed ds ukraine
Tengri 1750 Farmed ds ukraine
Eagle 1740 Farmed 10k west
Clovis 1740 Farmed 3k and 5k Eu eurasia LA middle east and NA

This is half true half false. Yeah, those people "farmed" in those settings, but this situation miss some of they key words of this thread : "in the same way".
1) Eu west 10k? is the same settings, alr, not the same playstyle though. In Eu 10k west you can rush, you can expand and lategame, you can choose to use many units to wall or not, you can go different strategies, main of what you referred was probably PD, but also LB was used, i remember, IF can be used, different strategies, different playstyles, different duels.
2) 3k-5k-10k-eu-eurasia-mideast, you already listed 6 different things, i don't even need to do it here : not "the same way". I'm also convinced that theese games had different strategy, not sure though, but the point is above.
3) I don't know this guy, he farmed eurasia? he farmed always same strategy? he farmed always noobs? he only used always one playstyle? then its the same of what we're talking about nowadays, let me know about him
4) ds ukraine is not just building troops and sending toward opponents. It require knowledge of economy, when to do the right thing, either rush, which places to rush, every game can be different, i'm also sure 4nic (and Tengri) haven't only played ranks 4 and 1000 elo players to get to 1700+ elo
5) same as 4
6) same as 1
7) same as 2 (even more difference here tbh)

Citat:

New players today aren't an exception just because you don't like it.

New players today (specific ones, not everybody) are exeption, not becasue i don't like it, i myself played many CO or eurasia games, but because it's always the same thing, always vs noobs, always vs lowranks, always noskill plays, always with people who joined the game yesterday, or haven't played for 5 years, or whatever reason for they have no idea what's happening in the duel, always THE SAME. That's the point.

I agree with the rest, seasonal thropies may seems like jokes now, not many people care about them anymore, seasonal trophy is not the best representation of who is the best person it just mean who spend more time farming in the game. All those thing are true, or close to truth. It is so right now! why it has to be so for ever?
Tournament thropies are a cool competion, but doesnt have to be the only one, or the only important one. In tournaments you can lose a game because of a tb, or any singularity that occurs. In the seasonal thropies you should prove both your skills, and you beeing active in the game, winning many games (many meaningfull games), that's what season should be about, it is not right now, you are right, but many people and admins agree that it can be better and it can be reformed.

Citat:

Honestly if you don't like this particular person farming. Join their game and beat them. And if you can't then suck it up. If they banned you then who cares and move on.

I did joined them, i did beat them, i got banned (only by one for now)
Who cares? That's it, that's the attitude that need to be changed. Season, elo, seasonal thropies, seasonal race can be important, can be interesting, can be fair. How?

With people caring about it.