This is why

Napisano od Khal.eesi, 01.12.2014 at 05:13

Napisano od Skanderbeg, 30.11.2014 at 10:14

Ok then, i will gather an army, and go to war in your honor, i will yell your name, praise you, but i will kill in your name, rape and loot. People will think we are doing it in your name, so its your fault for their suffering.

KIngs needed church aproval in most cases, to go to war.And church encouraged wars most of the times.Remember the crusades?They were pushed by the catholic church and the popes.They were the closest thing to god that existed at the time, so your argument doesnt make sense.Even worst with muslim warlords.Supposedly Allah was appearing to them, asking for blood of the infidels.So you have to choose.Either religion is a fake and clerics all throughout history, were scammers and liars.Or religion and its representatives throughout history, are responsible for hundreds of wars, torture, murders and slavery.

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 00:43

Religion did not do that. The Church did, you fucking ignored what I and Tito said.

that is a 10 year old argument.You cant differentiate church from religion, whenever it suits your interest.Like it or not, the church and its clerics are gods representative in earth.Clerics study gods work and are responsible for passing his teachings unto the rest of the population.Moreso clerics supposedly have a deep connection with god and have his ear and act on his behalf.
That being said, if clerics are gods representantive on earth, how can they commit such attrocities and so many wars and evilness in as long as 2000 years ?If even gods representatives are corrupted and evil, then something is wrong.Is god giving them bad advice?Is god bad?Or all clerics and believers misunderstood him for 2000 years.Or they just ignored him and waged wars?And if they ignored their god, whats the point in the religion anyway?

God: Thou shalt not kill

Church: Yeah kill natives, kill heretics, kill a lot of people ok.

No, they are not always good representives. You are generalizing so much it hurts. And no human is perfect, and religious people know that.
Even popes make mistakes, and they can do some major mistakes too. In fact, I've read that one Pope tried to ban people from reading the Bible since it can get them thinking apparently.
But ofc God wants Christians to read the Bible, see?

Good represnitive: idc if you are athiest
Bad rep: Die. I hate your guts and your family, your friends. You're going to hell

Citat:

Napisano od RaulPB, 01.12.2014 at 05:30

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 00:43

Religion did not do that. The Church did, you fucking ignored what I and Tito said.

Isn't Church in charge and responsable for what is done in the name of religion or did I miss something? Religion was what Church wanted it to be.

It might be but it can do it wrong sometimes, and it did a lot of wrong in the Middle Ages (and probably also in the 19th century)

Citat:

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 07:11

Napisano od RaulPB, 01.12.2014 at 05:30

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 00:43

Religion did not do that. The Church did, you fucking ignored what I and Tito said.

Isn't Church in charge and responsable for what is done in the name of religion or did I miss something? Religion was what Church wanted it to be.

It might be but it can do it wrong sometimes, and it did a lot of wrong in the Middle Ages (and probably also in the 19th century)

Since the Church is religion's representative figure... that makes Religion having done bad acts. They might be according to whatever god says or not, but the truth is that the Church is the only one who know what really is "god's message". If they did all those things, which they never regreted... something here isn't working right. Even true christians should realize that religion has been such a big pain in history and has been really hypocrite and manipulated people just for their greedy interesests... One thing is having faith in some god, which is totally respectable; another thing is using some god as excuse for crimes, which has happened in history so so so many times that no one can count them. Do you imagine the Middle ages with nowaday's weapons? Can you imagine what a genocide it would be? They wouldn't even hesitate to use all they've got in order to wipe out "heretic thoughts". It would be far more terrifying than WWII.

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 07:10

Napisano od Khal.eesi, 01.12.2014 at 05:13

Napisano od Skanderbeg, 30.11.2014 at 10:14

Ok then, i will gather an army, and go to war in your honor, i will yell your name, praise you, but i will kill in your name, rape and loot. People will think we are doing it in your name, so its your fault for their suffering.

KIngs needed church aproval in most cases, to go to war.And church encouraged wars most of the times.Remember the crusades?They were pushed by the catholic church and the popes.They were the closest thing to god that existed at the time, so your argument doesnt make sense.Even worst with muslim warlords.Supposedly Allah was appearing to them, asking for blood of the infidels.So you have to choose.Either religion is a fake and clerics all throughout history, were scammers and liars.Or religion and its representatives throughout history, are responsible for hundreds of wars, torture, murders and slavery.

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 00:43

Religion did not do that. The Church did, you fucking ignored what I and Tito said.

that is a 10 year old argument.You cant differentiate church from religion, whenever it suits your interest.Like it or not, the church and its clerics are gods representative in earth.Clerics study gods work and are responsible for passing his teachings unto the rest of the population.Moreso clerics supposedly have a deep connection with god and have his ear and act on his behalf.
That being said, if clerics are gods representantive on earth, how can they commit such attrocities and so many wars and evilness in as long as 2000 years ?If even gods representatives are corrupted and evil, then something is wrong.Is god giving them bad advice?Is god bad?Or all clerics and believers misunderstood him for 2000 years.Or they just ignored him and waged wars?And if they ignored their god, whats the point in the religion anyway?

God: Thou shalt not kill

Church: Yeah kill natives, kill heretics, kill a lot of people ok.

No, they are not always good representives. You are generalizing so much it hurts. And no human is perfect, and religious people know that.
Even popes make mistakes, and they can do some major mistakes too. In fact, I've read that one Pope tried to ban people from reading the Bible since it can get them thinking apparently.
But ofc God wants Christians to read the Bible, see?

Good represnitive: idc if you are athiest
Bad rep: Die. I hate your guts and your family, your friends. You're going to hell

to be honest i couldnt give more shits to brake your bubble.You can believe whatever you want, i dont care.But its about time to start talking like an adult and not like a troll, when the discussion calls for it.You cant just dismiss everything the church has done in the last 2100 years, thats ridiculous.You judge an institution by its followers and representatives.It works like that in the real world.If they are rotten, then the institution must be also.
That being said,If you cant construct a simple argument, thats ok nobody is judging you.But remain silent then, cause just posting your opinion about things without justification or any kind of logical reasoning behind it, is providing nothing, proves nothing and just gives me cancer.Moreso this whole thread was about church contribution to knowledge and innovation (intelligence), therefore you also are off topic.

Citat:

Napisano od RaulPB, 01.12.2014 at 07:47

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 07:11

Napisano od RaulPB, 01.12.2014 at 05:30

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 00:43

Religion did not do that. The Church did, you fucking ignored what I and Tito said.

Isn't Church in charge and responsable for what is done in the name of religion or did I miss something? Religion was what Church wanted it to be.

It might be but it can do it wrong sometimes, and it did a lot of wrong in the Middle Ages (and probably also in the 19th century)

Since the Church is religion's representative figure... that makes Religion having done bad acts. They might be according to whatever god says or not, but the truth is that the Church is the only one who know what really is "god's message". If they did all those things, which they never regreted... something here isn't working right. Even true christians should realize that religion has been such a big pain in history and has been really hypocrite and manipulated people just for their greedy interesests... One thing is having faith in some god, which is totally respectable; another thing is using some god as excuse for crimes, which has happened in history so so so many times that no one can count them. Do you imagine the Middle ages with nowaday's weapons? Can you imagine what a genocide it would be? They wouldn't even hesitate to use all they've got in order to wipe out "heretic thoughts". It would be far more terrifying than WWII.

Except they don't represent right you dolt I've been trying to explain this to you, the Church isn't always right. People use God as an excuse to do bad things? they do but that doesn't mean God supports them. Is like me killing some one in your name, do you support me killing innocent people? No you don't. Same with God and the Church, Church does that but God doesn't like it.

Napisano od Khal.eesi, 01.12.2014 at 08:06

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 07:10

Napisano od Khal.eesi, 01.12.2014 at 05:13

Napisano od Skanderbeg, 30.11.2014 at 10:14

Ok then, i will gather an army, and go to war in your honor, i will yell your name, praise you, but i will kill in your name, rape and loot. People will think we are doing it in your name, so its your fault for their suffering.

KIngs needed church aproval in most cases, to go to war.And church encouraged wars most of the times.Remember the crusades?They were pushed by the catholic church and the popes.They were the closest thing to god that existed at the time, so your argument doesnt make sense.Even worst with muslim warlords.Supposedly Allah was appearing to them, asking for blood of the infidels.So you have to choose.Either religion is a fake and clerics all throughout history, were scammers and liars.Or religion and its representatives throughout history, are responsible for hundreds of wars, torture, murders and slavery.

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 00:43

Religion did not do that. The Church did, you fucking ignored what I and Tito said.

that is a 10 year old argument.You cant differentiate church from religion, whenever it suits your interest.Like it or not, the church and its clerics are gods representative in earth.Clerics study gods work and are responsible for passing his teachings unto the rest of the population.Moreso clerics supposedly have a deep connection with god and have his ear and act on his behalf.
That being said, if clerics are gods representantive on earth, how can they commit such attrocities and so many wars and evilness in as long as 2000 years ?If even gods representatives are corrupted and evil, then something is wrong.Is god giving them bad advice?Is god bad?Or all clerics and believers misunderstood him for 2000 years.Or they just ignored him and waged wars?And if they ignored their god, whats the point in the religion anyway?

God: Thou shalt not kill

Church: Yeah kill natives, kill heretics, kill a lot of people ok.

No, they are not always good representives. You are generalizing so much it hurts. And no human is perfect, and religious people know that.
Even popes make mistakes, and they can do some major mistakes too. In fact, I've read that one Pope tried to ban people from reading the Bible since it can get them thinking apparently.
But ofc God wants Christians to read the Bible, see?

Good represnitive: idc if you are athiest
Bad rep: Die. I hate your guts and your family, your friends. You're going to hell

to be honest i couldnt give more shits to brake your bubble.You can believe whatever you want, i dont care.But its about time to start talking like an adult and not like a troll, when the discussion calls for it.You cant just dismiss everything the church has done in the last 2100 years, thats ridiculous.You judge an institution by its followers and representatives.It works like that in the real world.If they are rotten, then the institution must be also.
That being said,If you cant construct a simple argument, thats ok nobody is judging you.But remain silent then, cause just posting your opinion about things without justification or any kind of logical reasoning behind it, is providing nothing, proves nothing and just gives me cancer.Moreso this whole thread was about church contribution to knowledge and innovation (intelligence), therefore you also are off topic.

I never dismissed and Church's crimes, for they were crimes but not the religion's crimes. And that's the example you use? What if a lot a jerks just so happen to share your views and are your fans? Does that mean you are also a complete jerk? I hate RP but if a bunch of RPers share my views and be my fans or something does that mean I like RP?

And I'll have you know that your argument has no logical reasoning behind to me since I disproved it again and again but you ignore me.

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 10:13

Except they don't represent right you dolt I've been trying to explain this to you, the Church isn't always right. People use God as an excuse to do bad things? they do but that doesn't mean God supports them. Is like me killing some one in your name, do you support me killing innocent people? No you don't. Same with God and the Church, Church does that but God doesn't like it.

In that case, if church isnt right and it doesnt represent "god's wishes", how do you explain that so many people have always suported or let them keep making crimes...? Werent those people part of that same religion? Again, religion is guilty of all this in last instance. If you do something alone on my name, you have no credit, you're just nuts. If thousands of people kill on your name, there's a huge problem = religion.

Napisano od RaulPB, 01.12.2014 at 10:35

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 10:13

Except they don't represent right you dolt I've been trying to explain this to you, the Church isn't always right. People use God as an excuse to do bad things? they do but that doesn't mean God supports them. Is like me killing some one in your name, do you support me killing innocent people? No you don't. Same with God and the Church, Church does that but God doesn't like it.

In that case, if church isnt right and it doesnt represent "god's wishes", how do you explain that so many people have always suported or let them keep making crimes...? Werent those people part of that same religion? Again, religion is guilty of all this in last instance. If you do something alone on my name, you have no credit, you're just nuts. If thousands of people kill on your name, there's a huge problem = religion.

Church isn't always right, but sometimes it is. And why did so many support them at their worst? That's how people were back then, especially in the middle age times since peasents didn't get much education. They were simple people, so they followed the church, but not for long because >Martin Luther

Napisano od Truth2015, 02.12.2014 at 03:27

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 07:10

God: Thou shalt not kill
Church: Yeah kill natives, kill heretics, kill a lot of people ok.

God: Thou shalt not kill

*kills the entire population except for Noah*

Wow, child, the more time passes by, the dumber you get instead of getting smarter.

Bet you won't even reply to this

And if you do it will probably be some bullshit like: he had to cleanse the world

Doesn't matter, he still contradicts himself and is a hypocrite

So if we really think about it, god killed more people than the church. He is even worse. Your little illusion destroyed once again

What do you have to say about that?

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 10:52

Church isn't always right, but sometimes it is.

The sky isn't always red, but sometimes it is. You realize you're not making any arguments right?

Yes, he had to cleanse the world.
And saying the Church was never right is wrong, as they were right for reforming the Church for example to try and root out corruption.

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 10:52

Church isn't always right, but sometimes it is. And why did so many support them at their worst? That's how people were back then, especially in the middle age times since peasents didn't get much education. They were simple people, so they followed the church, but not for long because >Martin Luther

Church's main aim here is to provide guidelines to people about what god wants right?? Then, even if they were right 1 time out of 1000, it doesnt matter. They've degraded what the Church means. And there's no second chance for so fucking many and BIG "mistakes". They followed the Church cause they lied to the peasents making them believe some BS about heaven, hell, god, etc. which was suposedly writen in the Bible. Peasents just didnt have self-critisism or barely self-esteem. They only had the thought of what the Church told them, which is called manipulating. People that still follow the Church are either ignorant or masochist. Let's sum this up shall we? Religion has only brought headaches to mind kind, such as Church, who has enjoyed it's privileges as a suposed "God representative".

Napisano od Skanderbeg, 30.11.2014 at 10:18

Napisano od brianwl, 27.11.2014 at 11:16

Not that i'm a huge fan of causality, but:

instead of supporting a belief which justifies withholding people of essentials based on intelligence, could it be that when you are deprived of basic needs such as food, water and shelter, you rely more on faith and seek religion, and at the same time, are less concerned with academic pursuits as you try to stay alive, resulting in IQ not reaching its potential?

How would you then explain Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrein, Qatar, United Arab Emirates? They are rich as fuck, they have everything, drive best cars, own best video and audio technology purshased from the west, they even give their children $1000 every month because they have so much money they dont know what do to with it. Yet, they are very religious and know quran from first page to last page.

In other hand, you have poor atheist Albania. So how come rich countries are religious, and poor countries can be atheist? Shouldnt be the other way around?

As i indicated, i'm not a huge fan of causality, for the questions Tito just raised. The main point of the correlation in the IQ vs Religiosity graphic, and the main message 'This is why not all countries can have nice things' implies religious countries don't deserve basic needs.

I completely agree with you that there are religious nations that have wealth, and atheistic nations that don't, and so we both agree there are problems with the premise of the main message, for different reasons... yours is perfectly valid. My support is for belief systems that provide the essentials (food shelter housing) no matter religion and inherent intelligence.

I was offering an alternative interpretation as to why impoverished nations may seek religion... not unlike people who are about to die... When we face a harsh end, it is not uncommon for people from most cultures to turn to religion for answers... so it seems to me if you are impoverished, and on the verge of death, you may have the same incentives.

Peace.

Napisano od Skanderbeg, 01.12.2014 at 10:59

Wrong, i think of many things, religion is only 5% of everything i think and do.
Religion>closed minded is stereotype.
I use science to test religion and God, i dont believe in ghosts. Search through my posts if you need proof.
If it wasnt for religion - there wouldnt be skilled people with knowledge to build foundation for industrial revolution. Where you think they learned mathematics, astronomy, physics, chemistry? They learned all that on universities opened by priests and monks.

If anyone is calculating, preparing thoroughly and working trying to reach perfection... that would be me. So im not blind, neither i pretend to be blind to facts and proofs.

I never said ALL people involved in religion is mind-closed. You shouldn't generalize, neither have I. I focused on you, you are mind-closed, at least in what religion involves.
I have no idea about your qualifications but I asume you're no scientist. But I am. And science can't prove god's existance but it can't reject god's existance either. This is why people "believe " in god, cause there is no evidence about his existance. You can choose to believe or not, but you'll never get a real evidence of his existance neither an evidence that says that it didnt exist. Therefor, believing is all about faith, dont you dare mix science with religion or you'll be giving me an ignorant image of your personality.
I think someone failed on his history subject. Basic science come from ancient greeks, romans, Egyptians, etc. All ancient civilizations. During Christian ruleship in europe, our scientific advance was nearly stopped (specially when it was opposite to what the church praised). And I want to give you two examples of people that actually did some research to you understand the circumstances of that time, where scientist had to research in total anonymity as they were scared of being killed or they had to research in favour of the church (manipulation levels op, die or join us lol):

Remember the guy that said that the earth is not the centre of the universe and all that shit that was totally opposite to what church wanted people to BELIEVE?? He was catholic you know? you should probably look up Nicolas Copernico and see what happened to him, even if he was telling the truth... and you know what?? That's astronomy, in which religion lied to everyone. You call that a contribution to scientific knowledge? Let's not talk about chemistry... all the lies they made up about substances appearing from no where with no apparent reason... All god's miracle... lol

The second example, you know a guy called Luis Pasteur?? You remember something called spontaneous generation?? It does sound retarded doesnt it?? Pascual actually believed in it and in religion... And with his experiment he was eager to prove it actually was true. But you know what? He proved just the opposite. With this experiment he was against his own ideologies, he just did an experiment to prove religion is right but guess what? Religion wasn't. I can't imagine what shock must that have been to him lol but he was brave enough to publish his results, even if they were against what religion said and what his own principles were. He's a true scientist, I admire him.

So there you have, they studied things that didnt go against religion in order to not get killed or they tried to prove religion is right. Some even manipulated their own experiments to prove religion right (either were retards or scared to die).

You know who could study in those universities? And you know how many of those guys actually made a contribution to science?? And you know what they actually did there?? And do you know what they actually did with what they considered heresy?? Do you know where most of the roman-greek knowledge went (cause it was against christian beliefs and the catholic church would have burned it)?? Do you know where roman-greek scientists emigrated?? They all went to Constantinople. Do you know that much of our knoledge from those dark ages comes from the east (arabs and chinese)?? Do you know did we really start advancing in science?? Do you really know anything with proves??

If you dont mind, can i ask you your qualifications??

Napisano od Guest, 02.12.2014 at 04:49

Yes, he had to cleanse the world.

nice god ^^ and from there, how could we reach today's population??

Napisano od RaulPB, 02.12.2014 at 10:24

Napisano od Guest, 02.12.2014 at 04:49

Yes, he had to cleanse the world.

nice god ^^ and from there, how could we reach today's population??

Except he killed evil people.
And don't be silly, it's called pro-creation.

Napisano od Guest, 02.12.2014 at 11:21

Napisano od RaulPB, 02.12.2014 at 10:24

Napisano od Guest, 02.12.2014 at 04:49

Yes, he had to cleanse the world.

nice god ^^ and from there, how could we reach today's population??

Except he killed evil people.
And don't be silly, it's called pro-creation.

So... everyone except the creatures on the boat were evil... even the animals right? And what made Noah be "good" but the others be "evil"? And how the heck can you procreate so fast from 2 people to some billion... how much time has passed since that happened according to the bible?

Napisano od RaulPB, 02.12.2014 at 11:26

Napisano od Guest, 02.12.2014 at 11:21

Napisano od RaulPB, 02.12.2014 at 10:24

Napisano od Guest, 02.12.2014 at 04:49

Yes, he had to cleanse the world.

nice god ^^ and from there, how could we reach today's population??

Except he killed evil people.
And don't be silly, it's called pro-creation.

So... everyone except the creatures on the boat were evil... even the animals right? And what made Noah be "good" but the others be "evil"? And how the heck can you procreate so fast from 2 people to some billion... how much time has passed since that happened according to the bible?

It was more than 2 people. And it's possible in a over 6 thousand years to create 7 billion people through enough procreation.

Napisano od Guest, 02.12.2014 at 11:30

It was more than 2 people. And it's possible in a over 6 thousand years to create 7 billion people through enough procreation.

If that flood actually had happened, the amazonian forest was rebuilt in less than a few years? And what happened to all the cultures of which there are proves that existed during that time... which they kept living...? Disappeared and were procreated again in few hours? Also reached again the regions that were inhabited before the flood in no time? Same with the animal population?

Napisano od RaulPB, 02.12.2014 at 11:41

Napisano od Guest, 02.12.2014 at 11:30

It was more than 2 people. And it's possible in a over 6 thousand years to create 7 billion people through enough procreation.

If that flood actually had happened, the amazonian forest was rebuilt in less than a few years? And what happened to all the cultures of which there are proves that existed during that time... which they kept living...? Disappeared and were procreated again in few hours? Also reached again the regions that were inhabited before the flood in no time? Same with the animal population?

Immigration, that's how humanity spread far and wide. And I don't see how rainforests can't come back after at least 1 thousand if not a few hundred years.

Napisano od Truth2015, 03.12.2014 at 04:08

Napisano od Guest, 02.12.2014 at 04:49

Napisano od Truth2015, 02.12.2014 at 03:27

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 07:10

God: Thou shalt not kill
Church: Yeah kill natives, kill heretics, kill a lot of people ok.

God: Thou shalt not kill

*kills the entire population except for Noah*

Wow, child, the more time passes by, the dumber you get instead of getting smarter.

Bet you won't even reply to this

And if you do it will probably be some bullshit like: he had to cleanse the world

Doesn't matter, he still contradicts himself and is a hypocrite

So if we really think about it, god killed more people than the church. He is even worse. Your little illusion destroyed once again

What do you have to say about that?

Napisano od Guest, 01.12.2014 at 10:52

Church isn't always right, but sometimes it is.

The sky isn't always red, but sometimes it is. You realize you're not making any arguments right?

Yes, he had to cleanse the world.
And saying the Church was never right is wrong, as they were right for reforming the Church for example to try and root out corruption.

So you admit that he killed more than the church. Good to know. Good job idiot you just defeated your own argument

Why do you PM me when you say the exact same thing here? Whatver..

They deserved it.

Napisano od Truth2015, 03.12.2014 at 06:46

What do you mean, fool. I speak the truth, and I use logic and reason which is uncomfortable in a world full of lies. Therefore my posts can be deleted anytime. Now don't change the topic, just admit that you worship a criminal god. Which makes you a potential "kill in the name of god" person. I know you would, and believe me, I wouldn't hesitate to do it to you either

Then I'll just say: "he deserved it". Best argument ever

You're only saying you do. You meant in a literal sense that every Christian was/is a fool. 404: logic not found.